Coffee with Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

Hi Pierre,

Thank you for joining our discussion group. As you are familiar with, there are a variety of ways for people to have a discussion on Area Light. This group gives us a chance to feature a member and build an ongoing conversation out of it others are welcome to join. We could do this as an expose on your business projects, an informational interview, or perhaps even general discussion. You are welcome to take a lead.

I can't wait to get to know you better. I have thoroughly enjoyed meeting you so far and am quite impressed with your thoughts on social networking. You are a special addition to this community. I also wanted to thank you for the research you did for me. We've been relatively low profile as we test everything out and set up. I think now we are to a point where it is a good time to reach out to our members and get to know them. I'm hoping you will stop by from time to time to explore, interact, and create with us. You might find there are some other members who you have yet to meet and share interests with. It would be great to learn all about you and what you do.


Please join me for coffee and remember to take a look at some of the other discussions we have going and join in to any that interest you. Could be a nice way of meeting new people and interacting on a quality level.

Best,

Anthony

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hi Anthony !

Black coffee for me, without milk, please !
Twice a day : morning and after lunch.

Hi Anthony and everybody !

My post Managing content on Ning on this network is the most advanced that I put on the web on my why and how.
Any comment welcomed.
I invite everybody to express also their Why and How. If you wish that people visit your profile pages, express in Groups and Forums what you are doing on the web and why you feel that your approach is different than those of hundred of million of other users.

All the best

Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

Hey Pierre,

Thanks for joining us for coffee, LOL! I've seen some pretty good forums around the idea of coffee talk so thought I'd incorporate the same here.

I read your post and thought it was terrific. I also noticed it on the Ning Network Directory. FYI, I've been mentioning you on several posts here on Area Light. You might look into the last couple Friday Spark! updates on our group Area Light Home or my blog Area Light End-User Experience. I didn't realize that was your most advanced though ;) I just assumed that was typical for you. To sum up my comments about your post- very appreciated for their relevance to my own interests and what I'm doing with Area Light. It's quite possible we may be ahead of our time on some of these ideas and it behooves us to express them in today's rapidly evolving environment. We just might be "on time".

Regarding your point (in reference to my point) about interaction and content on Ning- I could take that either way as supportive agreement or constructive disagreement. To clarify, I agree with supporting Ning wholeheartedly and finding ways to make up for any deficiencies while they continue development. I'm posting a lot of content too and want that to serve my interests in some ways. I'm referring to the challenge of indexing and referencing for ease of access. I am going to be looking more closely at the tag and search features to see how that helps. I've also got a few other considerations and ideas. You really have an incredibly engaging post and I will meet you there to continue the conversation in greater detail.

You are also right on with focussing on the Why and How. One of my favorite sayings is, "I want to be different like everyone else I know." I think I've noted some discussions on the Ning blog regarding free serving controls and how this presents potential trade-offs. It's a risk I think they are accepting to allow for the possibility of disorder for the sake of free creation and natural organization. I have an intuition there will be networking relationships that form on the basis of shared preferences on the Why and How. Let's say some people are doing similar things, they can make a decision to be in direct competition which doesn't really serve the benefit of an open networking platform. Or they can decide to get along and discuss the slight variances that define their niche in that much more detail. Take for example the Ning Network Directory. I spoke to Jen about my intentions to use Area Light as a networking hub/ directory too. I think we really connected on some shared values. I like how that network focusses specifically on a Ning directory while this is only a subcomponent of my plans. I did have to reconsider my approach when I learned about that project. I see it as a win win because I don't have to put in so much work to accomplish that target and can focus on what I really want to do which is ultimately different. For instance, I might really like to focus in on your Why and How so I can become an expert on your target niche and direct people who fit the profile to you as a service to both you and them.

It's a real pleasure to talk with you Pierre. You might take an interest in my new group here called Holonic Organization which focusses on this issue of balancing autonemy and cooperativeness. Great coffee by the way! Let's revisit this conversation on occasion and keep it an actively evolving script- just as if we were meeting for coffee on occassion.

Best,


Anthony

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hi Anthony, you will be interested by the discussion below :

I had required Jen to open an Art group in his Directory. He replied :

On the Groups, it's too long to explain here. Summary: I'm trying to find the best way to create 20 Featured Groups. These 20 Groups would reflect all of our Categories. I would only want Network Creators to join, and nothing else. This would show the member/network icons of each network that would belong to that Category or Group. However, I'm afraid that this will be confusing to members, why they cannot add anything to the Groups - - so I am still pondering this. After I figure this out, I will be happy to create your Group. The idea behind these 20 special groups:
1. All 20 Featured on home page
2. Each group with special title for reflected categories
3. Site Visitors click on Group
4. All they see are your icons in appropriate group
5. They can quickly access your Preview Pages

My comment to Jen was :

You told me :

I'm afraid that this (Group strategy) will be confusing to members, why they (members) cannot add anything to the Groups - -

It is exactly why I wanted to draw your attention on network owner behaviour. Look at my Art Directory group, and you see therein that groups members were really shy to express the purpose of their networks and the news concerning their activities. I stopped inviting them to do it (which was my priority when I started the group).

Anthony : helping people to express their Why and How concerning their web activity and the networks they created is a difficult task, but it is possibly a very good added value for your professional profile. It is looking obvious that Jen is not prepared to do it. I will never wish to do it on a wide extent, clearly.

All the best

Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

I'm inclined to give Jen some time. I think she's doing O.K. and I think part of her goal is to attract traffic. She's obviously got some more set up and figuring out to do. I'm working on similar projects in my Holonics group. I don't think I'm dissapointing people much, I haven't attracted that much attention yet. I'm looking at this from the perspective of what I can do on my own and what I will need to serve "everyone" if they do decide to join. I enjoy playing around with it. One of the reasons I met you was because I didn't want you to be discouraged for what you were trying. You said you intended to chenge directions and eliminate the directory component. I still think you should hold on to it unless it really interrupts your flow and focus. We're all going to need to be good at being works in progress though.

Take the Ning Network Creator forum. Today they are shutting down their forums (not everyone's). They're going to continue to allow groups but are consolodating their resources to do better via their Help Center. It seems there are plenty of your usuall vocal dissapointments being expressed. You'll never make everyone happy and no one system is going to have all the answers. I think an important part of success is going to be related to creativity actually. Some people want new enhancements. I think we've got plenty to play around with and I feel resourceful enough to improvise what I want and need. So that is part of the value I bring and I recognize the importance of letting people try their own ideas or helping me with mine. I actually think I might be able to help others with theirs.

Someone once told me the drawings that go into a work are more interesting than the final piece. There is obviously something special I feel about my own ideas- and I quickly picked up on similarities for what you were trying. I find it intellectually stimulating to explore your mind on that. I'm also interested in learning as much about the how and why you think about everything so I can appreciate the work in fuller context. You might appreciate that as an art professional. It's easy to get bored if you fixate on one thing too long. Shifting attention to different objects can be refreshing and recharge you to refocus on your intentional works. I think that is how some people manage to fold multiple layers of concentration and purpose into their works- some are so brilliant demonstrations of mastery.

Ning networks are modern canvasses (and you can quote me on that!). Why wouldn't you want to find out the how and why of what goes into the creative process of any network creator? Who better to matriculate a vocabulary on the art than artists? I noted some agencies out there valuing websites based on traffic and other factors. I guess there are people or companies that actually purchase sites/ businesses. I wonder who has the highest valued site? I don't really care though. What matters to me are my own standards and tastes. Those are the finds I am interested in. Some works are going to be priceless because they will be the effect of live influences distributted across different members and networks. A buyer might not be able to conceivably purchase those. How do you buy "people" and their behaviors. Offer to buy my site and chances are I might accept and be thankful for the financing for my next project- casting the shell of the old, attracting the following of people who can't wait to see and be a part of the next live expression of my work creativity, and leaving behind those who are not really in tune with my next direction anyway.

Don't forget to enjoy yourself Pierre. Do whatever you want to- especially with your own network. I'll be paying attention. It's the least I can do for the courtesy of your interest and engagement on my site. Plus, I'm actually interested in your project and find your intellect suitable to some areas of conversation I just know are not suitable for all audiences.

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

You've also been kind to me with your research and reference to my initiatives and interests.

I'm going to be doing some local exploration of Chico's art community. I wonder if you would be interested in exploring with me and perhaps open to some discussion on auctioning some works if the opportunity presents?

Here's one from a local artist I personally know well. I don't know if you think it's all that great. I might be skewing my impression with what I know about the artist. I actually find it quite fascinating.

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hi my coffee friend Anthony

I suggest you add the link to the member's profile page when you open a coffee discussions in this group.

Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

Hey Pierre,

thanks for the plug and link on your network list! I took a look into the Art Directory Group you mentioned. Nice job with that. Not surprising to see people are shy. There's an aspect of work to serve your interests I saw a handful put their time into. Otherwise, getting in touch with intrinsic motivations and personality types is an obvious challenge. I'll continue to reflect on my experience as well as those shared with me from others such as yourself. It's an interesting phenomena. I will say I think you've got a substantial enough amount of activity to be comfortable. At least you were not left hanging, as they say. Your topic might tap you into more of a social group anyway. Other subject matters might fare far worse!

Thanks for the suggestion on linking to profile pages. I considered this seriously. Since I'm writing directly to a member, it probably doesn't make as much sense to link to their own profile page. I can see the benefit for others who might join into the discussions later. If I'm fortunate to get a response and ongoing engagement from that member, then i might direct attention to the utility of clicking on their icon wherever it displayes in the conversation. Good point though.

Some conversations will obviously do better than others. As long as a member is on this site then it is the least I can do to engage them. Some actually end up coming around far after joining and periodically months in between. I think that level of activity is satisfying enough to me. Better than nothing in my opinion and allows me more time for the active members anyway. The good thing overall, is I see that Ning is still fresh off the drawing board even in internet terms. I believe in the platform and I think the activity will multiply geometrically over the coming five years. So with that, we'll find more proactive extroverted people who have a taste for intelligent/ quality participation. We'll also be established for a bit and the level of organization and content we have built up- though less than we might hope for right now- will serve to offer some credibility to us in winning the attentions of our target markets.

Anthony

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hi Anthony

I am interested by your sentence here above :
"Otherwise, getting in touch with intrinsic motivations and personality types is an obvious challenge."

I do agree, of course. I spend time on networks for having a chance to trade informations with other members. I really do not understand why most of the web users are not willing to express for which purpose they spend time in the networks. I come to the conclusion that most of them are simply UNABLE to express other intelligent words than Hi or Hey or Look at myself. Human beings are not as developed as they believe to be...

One of the reasons I enjoy having coffee with you is because we can trade informations to clear this paradox. I have in mind to start a discussion in one of your Groups on the subject of the communication lines. I do not know when (some ideas are still to be assembled).

All the best

Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

Right on Pierre,

I enjoy coffee with you for the same reason. I'm inclined to relate to people that are alert to the environments they are operating in. There's a clue there for taking applications of the tools we have at our disposal and influncing creative outcomes through behaviors. I know most people aren't going to be in to that initially nor even long-term. However, just imagine what we can accomplish with the right kind of involvement.

I also think you are onto something on the matter of limits to expression. Some people are up to take a mile form an inch. Take a gander at Mari Torres. She's taken her interactions a step further with video responses. I might play with that, but I also recognize a value to written content too. Yes, this network is a social networking playground. I play with it and invite others to do the same. I probably won't have to work out too many controls or parameters to maintain the intended integrity of the site structure because the level of activity from most members is minimal.

At some point, I think we can look into holding some people's hands in helping them to be expressive. Sometimes, people just post a comment or greeting to see what's going to happen. If you look at Ning as a whole, most networks i've researched have hardly any activity at all. When I've engaged the creators, I've been lucky to even get a response! We're probably naturally gravitating to perspectives of more active communities. However, here I'll be considering walking people along who really have no idea of what to expect from social networking too.

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hi Anthony

Yesterday, the creator of another network required her admins to advise on the subject of another network to be linked or not.
One of the admins replied :
"If (this other) network is helpful for us, I don't see any problem.
Before that, we need to define our purpose and objective very distinctly."

It is an excellent reply. This admin is intelligent and efficient.

But he is an exception. I guess that intelligent and efficient people see no incentive to spend time in the networks, unless they are professionals of the networks such as Jen and you. The intellectual level of the networks has to be much much much much increased before some efficient members come and edit on networks some of their own know how.

All the best

Pierre

[Nascent Dynamics ( )]

Hi Pierre,

Another good point regarding member discretion. Of course, we try to get people on board in some cases. We ought to be careful what we ask for! I play around with some controls, but essentially view Area Light as a social networking experiment. For a site to grow with a large volume of quality contribution (if such a participatory audience is to exist some day), I believe you would necessarily have to allow freedom of initiative. On the other hand, some order is not always contradictory to that end. More people probably appreciate knowing what to do and how. It removes any uncertainty and gives them encouragement to move forward with engagement. I have no doubt the open nature here leaves some members confused. If you take a look, some are extroverted and bold enough to try out things. It's been welcome activity so far. My other nine networks in development are going to be much more organized like your Art Auction Network. The purpose of the order and control will be to ensure quality in deliverables to my client markets- some of whom will hopefully be paying me for services including my community resources.

I've also been playing around with Wiki development. No doubt you are familiar based on your links at AAN. You can see the user-base and platform history is cultivated from an intellectual content building standpoint. Generally, more educated societies welcome some standards and invite them to substantiate the value of their own works. One Wiki I was on surprised me one day when a link I had posted was removed. I gave them the benefit of the doubt this was not malevolence. We worked it out and I received some excellent clarification of how to make the relevance of my content unmistakable. I'm developing wiki's for my various business lines outside Area Light and decided to approach it from a very controlled perspective. I've got a wiki project associated with this network. I'm going to open that to contributors, but under the premise of moderated membership.

There are some considerations to a self-organizing network I am comfortable with. For one, as Ning has mentioned is intentional in their design, creators can ban members and essentially delete all the content they posted in a click. I would think this would be useful for spammers who i might immediately identify or come about on relationships that suddenly turn seriously unacceptable- a worst case scenario I hope never to meet. I do influence the tone of this network in my own participation. Actually, more than I prefer as I am sure you can relate to as well. The people who do find themselves comfortable to make it their own generally agree with my standards on some level. Others simply don't stomach it and move on to greener pasteurs.

There's also the matter of activity. I think that sets people apart. Members will either make themselves known consistently or fall into the more occasional or observer classes. There's of course a place for them here too. It would take a serious degree of ongoing participation to keep up with me here- or you there. So in Area Light, I'm willing to see how far I can let it go as long as I'm comfortable. Where I do not insult member intelligence with too many rules, I'm delivering an environment to my own presence. Where there is a shortcoming of guidance, they need only ask or look a little closer at some of my activities. Where there are potential problems, I think my own temperament combined with the natural orders of behavior will likely come into play just fine.

To those ends, I'm appreciative of your comment. It's not beyond my reasoning to assume some of what I am doing is ahead of it's time or there is simply not a suitable audience for my more advanced activities...yet. By the way, I stopped by a couple of your Modern Art discussions. You do outstanding work. I posted directly to my profile onsite.

[Pierre Tavlitzki]

Hey Anthony

I would like to comment another key as you expressed it above :
"I do not insult member intelligence with too many rules".

There are many groups or networks where I did not join because the animator expressed rules.

In my network there are two rules, no more (and some invites to preferred operation). It is required by the fact that most people ignore the laws of copyright, and that it is a requisite in my area to get a full compliance with copyright. These rules are placed in the Profile questions, as required questions with only one possible reply. This is the simplest way to express "terms and conditions" and to be sure that the new member complies. Moreover their reply (commitment) is forever visible in their profile.

Otherwise, i.e. for other reasons than legal questions, there is no rule. It is my work as the network owner to put the stuff at the right place so that new members will not pollute, intentionally or not, by placing stuff at a place where I am not happy to find it. When it happens I do not have to blame the member (just because I did not issue rules) but to show better examples of what I wish.

It is not absolutely true. There are rules in my Groups, but I shall soften them at the end of the year in order to invite members to discussions in the mode they are familiar with in their other networks.

All the best

Pierre